Giving in to the never happies

To give in to the never happies is not good for them , or the wider family 


Whether it’s the LG’s , the Aborigines, the Muslims or the Christians,  it’s never right to give in to the never happies. The more they push and are encouraged to push ( esp with why not questions) , the more they will keep pushing;   if it’s not more territory then more recognition ; if not LG then LGBTI and then what lGBTIPA  ?
So,  in the context here of the same sex marriage debate in Australia September 2017 -October 2017


To give in to such pressure is wrong
1. It distorts the balance in the family
2. It’s a sign of weakness in the leaders
3. Not everything wise comes down to a simple form of logic so we shouldn’t spend all day being Greek ( thesis – antithesis) in the hope the truth will magically turn up ( scientism ) or our parents or leaders give up.
4. It devalues the value of experience and wisdom in the leaders .It devalues their authority
5. It’s not good for balanced resource use in the family:   the experimenters use up the saved or always limited resources. Civil marriage agreements lose their needed financial and boundary focus on the risks couples take on with the adventure of an unknown batch of children.They and us working hard to provide for them
6. It doesn’t breed resiliency . Resilience comes with sound push back based on real boundaries real limits and real wisdom. The public purse cannot fund all these whims .
7. It doesn’t teach respect, Self acceptance is the first thing in the respect giving game . Jesus words. Luke 10:25-29 We are all best  to learn to live with the limitations( and opportunities )of  our uniqueness. To do so is to grow up mature and develop our unique gifts.
8. Its only likely to be good for the pushers if the mature family members agree to do it without pressure ,( NOT “you have 1 month to decide” )
9. With all their wealth, press , noise and now the law behind them , why would the pushers not push harder ?

Say no like you are a mature adult who will not be pushed around.

My truth is my truth

A generation who poo pooed the idea of faith are living with the consequences of their denial . The post christian West has wussed out to its new faith in relativism. Its not generous to pretend we don't have genuine differences in how we approach moral choices - its plain simple and stupid. A denail of the rights of parenthood and authority in ecomia .Its dangerous stupid and unnatural not to resist the lizard brain,  but many nature worshipers do - Self control has become a dirty word ;  when it is a solution to nanny state nonsense.

Many say they can't understand why the western world is such a mess,  saying " they don't understand what;s happening ". Those who say that are just not looking broadly enough .

The Oxford dictionaries word of the year is post-truth for good reason . How you feel is more important  than what we think we /you need -the truth .
You the individual become the focus.
Parents have become panderers ,
Parliament a  place where children are allowed to run the Senate .
Public life --The end justifies the means and protest the right of anyone who grumbles - what a noise!

We used to drum this natural emotional driver into line when we were young. Now we have mature people behaving like children,  they do it in parliament and now on it . If they don't get a job as a CEO they try getting one as a wannabe . Look at me . Not happy jan  Who cares what the issue is . - Its me its me oh Lord .

Democracy

Chesterton tried to remind his generation nearly 100 years ago that they had a too simple idea of democracy .
As Hegel too might have reminded aour inexeprienced genartion . It not about quantity but quality . The floor of parliament reminds each generation .
In one month of our history we have Brexit Trump and a Circus of  a senate to tremind us that 50% means nothing . How did we get here ?
Chesterton too reminds us of the limited vision of the pedant and the total distractedness of those who think themselves" progressive . " ( His vision cuts across the dumb stupidity on this in ALL parties where they breed because the people want hope - partly cause they have none to build on !
Whitehead , the great scientist and Ellul the great sociologist reminds us of the danger of thinking we are doing science when we are just painting  cause over our correlations ( As much earlier books do also)

This revelation from the progressives  ( that heaven will come with a 50% majority ) may explain why the reactionary left  invent rebel parties to shoulder up their numbers  and why they only have 2 children ..  
The Liberal right in Australia 2016  have to win on the basis of logic and their own cooperative numbers.   Their union is a real marriage

greens at the dinner table

Many city cousins have got no idea why we ARE in "no talk "or even in a killing mood ( yes its very real out here !!!) when the discussion comes around to conservation .
We love the kids love for animals and for a better world order ( Farmers are the most screwed Liberals in the party) We would rather 20 cows than 200 to do obstetrics on late at night,, in this weather .But we know change is not easy and we do our best to care for our patch ,

It's great having the well intentioned passionate kids  at the table ( because we are interested in ALL who live on the land - that's why we all nearly have native veg patches on them ) provided the kids join in and converse about cutting edge conservation.

Please go and get your degrees in science and then come back and talk to us


"The Greens "don't really wanna be part of the family  They are a party just like any other
yet they are expected to do well THIS ELECTION by talking up all the things that are uncaring in our society.    The simple could just follow them down the simple track they set .

The Greens just wanna  tell us what to do.      

They fill our Shires up with fly in fly out experts who know nothing but bible class conservation. They read the book out to you when they come . Not news --not complex
 The reality is they don't wanna do cooperation,( look at the Senate focus) They believe in their own power to change the world by themselves and with their own gurus and tax plans ( most of which as Churchill might have reminded them ) "have been tried and failed"
Another 3 years of their stalling and it will still be some sort of tax "those stupids and the greedies over there" plan . Education isn't on the agenda presumably because they think
 WE have the afore  problem.

My people are dying because nothing hurts MORE  than misunderstanding and careless criticism ,Greens are fullavit .
Nothing hurts more than woosy leaders who give into the kids  The people seem ready to do more of that .


The job is hard mate and we must do it together . Please don't vote for the Party that wants power more than they want understanding and responsibility .

Make July 2 Independents day  
Madigan Muir whom ever .........but not the noisy children

Freedom within boundaries training

 Don't blame the children for hurting themselves  if all your faiths doctrine  was " do what you like kiddo"

Peklo!
Posted by Prima COOL on Tuesday, November 10, 2015

https://www.facebook.com/primacool/videos/10153300961726245/

Males abdicate from the Matriarchy in Schools and Homes

The last thing our liberal left women want to hear is that their  efforts to deal with the excesses of patriarchal leadership have been simply ineffective .Time to stop and rethink - there is no other way forward but to look back at where we went wrong and why.

The feigning femmes have got their way BUT have mistargeted the problem - it wasn't men after all, but  just some men , And not just men - anyone who takes authority can misuse it . Mistaken target --mistaken problem solving,
Pity most of these reactionary women never read the story of the Courageous Queen Esther - things have been worse for women outside the West and still are . XX are mistaken to think like weak blinkered determinists that they were born to nurture when  men know the outside world and must have a role,  as both do,   in hardening up the full picture for their kids .



MANY MANY  Males can't cope with women who insist in the simple nonsense that male leadership is by nature objectionable or so simple that "no one" should lead ( have final responsibility ) in a household . Women take CEO roles but don't see the hypocrisy at home .
 Most women seem to want ( at certain times and quite rightly so as the cartoon suggests ) men to take  leadership roles at home -- Which is to be girls cummon -- were leaving if you can't make up your mind !
Sound settled choice - we know the dilemma for both leaders - the BOYS usually need a kick up the arse to be leaders  so get real girls and give them leadership  even if its it NAME only , The deep paradox of a good marriage


Why would men want to look after the children when women insist in holding the trump card   -dummies . "You seem to think you know best " we men have heard it all before ."It is in your nature as nurturer to know best what kids need " you imply! But thats not right - I work ion the real world or can see it better than you at this moment !

The view of the household discipline teaching things in XX dominant household is too simple and dangerous and it starts from age 1 . In a family and in a school , there are mature and immature adults and   training and discipline needing to be modeled by BOTH and MORE  .

The bottom line is that despite many great teachers in our schools,  they can't change the " do what you like kiddo " stuff they learn with their parents in first 5 years .....easily.  
Teachers do a great job but we the public should understand FIRST why its so hard and been so hard for several decades now when naturally Johnny is seen to be best adapted by being free to do whatever he likes . God help us and save us from such naturalistic crap .  





I pity any teacher (XX or XY )  trying to wean kids off their mothers ideas of " getting what you want " to the now mostly unknown territory of :" doing what I say in class "   Have you been their lately you media chatterers ??????  " Spend more money on it -education " I  hear that dumb Shorten say . Money is not the issue ; I don't expect the Libs to get,   but Labor doesn't even get it .

Delusional ideas of the grand god of democracy - I vote 1 vaue charms the miracle out of the mire -- i don't believe in Labors religion . I mean---Don't have more than 2 children in a  room and you can , under their equally dumb approach to democracy ( numbers are right ( >50% rather than the" every view view" ), get done .
And the wannabes wonder why men get angry about how the women looks after the children and vice versa . Why men leave the families they had great hopes for leading ----- once  

Meanwhile young western women choose to be come radicalised back into a view which at  the very least MORE honestly recognises the natural role of the roaming outside real world partner in a relationship .
I don't agree that Islam provides necessarily the best known view of shared leadership , but that the view of the secularized west's view is being rejected by its own children .

Western girls don't want the arrogant isolationist and unnatural attitudes of their mothers -- the career might suit you mum but I want children and your ideas  don't work,   You don't build the idea of real respect ( just "your rights"  talk ) and no amount of fanatical defence will deny the divorces and domestic violence generated by not being able to talk about the diverse requirements of having two  leaders and a right of veto of one in the household .

Inciting Anger -Short sighted Shorten

If Labor wasn't in such a mess its leader would know that talking angry is NOT the job of a leader UNLESS its adult anger and has some basis other than the new leader keeping his promise to the people ( Getting the budgetback into the Black) . Someone could get hurt with all this anger over tough parental discipline . Shorten seems like the sort of household leader who just gives in .
A bigger leader would know not to listen to the children , A bigger and wiser leader would be more careful knowing his laughing doesn't overcome the problems of his teams poor budget control . The kids don't feel like we are in a recession - so what ! feelings are fickle . Lucky life in the real world is not about feelings . Ask the kids why all there education years can't get them the ability to buy a house and raise a family ( a former Labor objective )  The sometimes interesting

The Project ( "FRIENDS" at news time and about as sustainable ) is also afraid to state the obvious ( apart from Steve);that this careless action was rent a crowd and rent a reporter ( i am switching off the TV like never before ) The careless thought from one presenter that everything on their show is a joke was more than half true . Its worse ---its sometimes a kids party where friends never dare disagree with each other - the real issues left to rot as incomplete endings . Someone rented a crowd and the reporters never noticed !

Someone got angry and the older children didn't even say ( steve the exception ) " nothing is achieved unless you calm down and make the argumant rational and not personal.
According to reporters Tony Abbott is the most hated liar ever ( imagine making this claim again !)
More seriously, legitimizing anger creates even greater risk of greater real crimes and avoidable tragic actions.

ONLY a really desperate crowd of childlike complaint makes it personal and the dummies in reporter land don't even have the backbone to suggest so !

SWITCH YOUR TV OFF

While the children are in charge, noone in the family is happy

Anna Burkes words in favor of youth were fine , but symbolic of the very shallow noise and confusion that has left the left falling off fiscal cliffs - just as you would expect if you listen to young people but don't educate and discipline  them.

No mature citizen could have watched Q&A tonight without rejecting the noise and wishing for some fiscal discipline and wealth creation talk ( Anna s more "cushion talk" made her a poor rep for Labor )  .
 Pyne bashing is fine - he and John can handle criticism - unlike the majority of noise in the room

Ageing reactionaries at the ABC still yet to grow up

Saw Phillip Adams droning on about drones on ABC's big ideas last week . His moral outrage unconvincingly focused on yet another  problem he has identified in another.
This was the same week  when , if many of the immature of my generation had learnt anything,  they would   have been deeply challenged by the words and life of Nelson Mandella.
Where is that acerbic wit when it comes to tributes to a real leader ? Perhaps I missed it ? Perhaps the ABC even censor Phillip ?   A more dangerous great leader was not afraid to offer the truth to the audience " what did you expect to see , a reed shaken with the wind? "
·If the ABC  were a mature bunch , they would not have tried to squeeze Mandella into a hero mold of their own making. A windmill touting wanderer whose only cause is changing others in the bad name of revolution; A windmill touting reactionary whose faith is in automatic progress; who would kill there own children and leave them homeless in the faith of such foolishness . Windmill touting , reed focused wanderers who don't stay long enough in one place intellectually to learn  the liberating freedom of knowing  something worth reforming .

The one thing our BB ABC won't be remembered for is their ability to distinguish reformation from revolution, childish preoccupations from truly mature ones.  Hooked on a fast ride to the future they use up the fuel , but provide no landing homes for a future generation.



A young man recalls being at a rally  angry with Mandella
He came to see things in a totally new way.

This man is right. At this moment, he is the father of all of us here, and he is acting like a true parent, refusing to let us get ourselves into trouble.

 I won't be bidding goodbye to a soft man. Rather, I'll be saying goodbye to a man fierce enough to love his people without fear. In doing so, in large measure, he saved us from ourselves. May we never forget him.

If only Australia had more men like himin public life 

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/opinion/inquirer/20131215_Amid_hecklers__Madiba_offers_stunning_reply.html#Kl5b6dETiVxVYYlT.99

• OTHERS said on him
  He loved like a parent, with resolve to protect the young people, all people, from the ravages of rage.
• 
  

  Finally a tribute that doesn't turn Mandella into a man like my generation want their heroes to be - a man in their own image: wooses like we have been. What do we want ?what do we need ?A man moved by the wind whose constructions are toppled easily because the foundations of their newest building or demolition or rage project are soft,weak and incomplete.

Someone has to play hardline

Told the story of Labors incompetence in investing in the education revolution in our town.  Got little respectful response from a largely city crowd . We had no choice about getting a " new sec school"; we were part of an experiment . A city based experiment that caused us to lose most of our best teachers and kids to other towns and schools . an experiment that leaves us with 2 unused facilities that could be used by us but that may well be bulldozed and sold to pay for the experimenters failures. 

Millions of dollars of public money wasted, and who will pay for all the broken windows in buildings we once used , now.  We are clearly at risk even now of losing this great opportunity to KEEP the existing capital and cultural assets of our town - let alone build on them . 

Labor is teaching our children, if it isn't working, bulldoze it ;  sell the family assets to pay for your mistakes;  if its stops working, buy a new one; The bank account has money in it , spend it .

Its not clever ; its childish cloning ---market cloning "being a good consumer ". if that means anything but that we are living on the never never . 

We are only ever complete when we encourage each other to be a productive people!  Lets say so clearly at this election 

Little kids at the wheel

 "There are times to focus on the brake - this moment is one of them

ITS not our car we /the people are worried about 

--its 

- your brake 

 the car YOU  have driving and 

-the dumb routes you choose  

-the dumb best intentions you don't look into 

- the dumb sales jobs you fall for 

- the cul desacs you end up because you don't read the instructions 

-the reckless way you drive it 

-the need for care on the corners 

-the need to read signs 

- the accelerator you have been pushing

- the fuel gauge you think means you can drive it into the ground ( your pathetic and childish game of a race to the bottom ) 

- your dumb exploitation of what your fathers gave you 

Posted After Doug Camerons predictable bookeeeping ignorance and arrogance on Qanda ABCTV 

Saying No

Julia Gillard is today trying to say No;;  but it comes after years of providing succor to the noisy and immature in her hearing .
Mother Julia should not try to take all the calls. The problem then for Father Abbott and Father Napthine Like Father Balllieuu is the tough ask of saying no to some  of the noise .
But which noise - some distant noise about slavery today or soem close loud noise that noone wants to talk about ?

In Victoria this week we have leadership from wonderful Western District ? This may mean we  have we have much to offer OR that we don't quite know what we have been offered .My guess - bit of both! We know what a fair go mate really means 
Well either way we have the job,  so here are some suggestions. We have had the bulldozer  and  we all know out here  that bulldozer drivers are still in there in the big smoke; PLUS we know that such singleminded dummies have no idea about the sensitive matters of household .
Maybe the tractor is a better analogy Denis and Tony  - It ploughs the ground to show up the weeds.
Maybe if you asked us, you might learn something ?

You will hear a lot about the critical household  word "Resilience" at the moment , but not much about how to assess it and know it . Here's a little contribution from me who was once paid to do it .

Woosy Green stuff

Oh dear . Christine Milne thinks the risk is that the plight of refugees will be ignored ;  that  the issue with the majority of Australians is they don't/won't  care enough ( Her response to the refugee drowning s recommendations ) . Apparently according to her , the risk is that we aren't being kind enough.  
I am sure thinking and non thinking Australians have had enough of this woosy weak, unjustifiable  and pathetic talk .Talk tough and talk kind,  but not tears only please.
Have the greens not heard?  - you "have to be cruel to be kind"  .
Any suggestion that the other parties are not caring enough is an insult to most Australians who have a more realistic view of the sound tensions in oikonomia than she seems to
No one wants the impractical  unworkable household leadership of the overly sentimental  Greens.

What the mirror tells us

Or tries ( like our parents) to-- the whole truth and nothing but the truth .
Same call from Socrates and the Bible!
Emperors in the failing Roman Empire resorted to trying  to reinforce Emperor worship, Fortunately for us there were adults in the audience who called for the mirror of truth as the way to life and .......
children who were prepared to state the obvious "he's wearing no clothes".
Going on all the suspect heroes mentioned by all parties in the last few days , our pollies don't read much  .One might be tempted to think that the only people they really listen to are themselves.

Labor polys trying to lighten up ( their misplaced reaction to being told they were being too religious) is leaving them with no clothes/tattered telltale clothes.

Take Wayne swan speaking to himself this week .
To be fair it was a time in our lives when, up top we thought we were radical (HAIR) when in reality, we were conservative.Not products of our own minds but products of our parents.
Its helpful to recognize this confusion so we can actually mature in truth and grow up.Listening to his speech to the Cotton club , I had the distinct impression he hasn't grown up.Neither it seems have most Fabians  Mind you Hockey talkiing to his heroes ( you can blame the press for misrepresenting you, but when you get a chance to speak directly - not letting some  tired old liberal reactionary represent you is seriuosly dumb)  was showing his age too .Gazumping the kids with a cross reference to Galbraith might have wisely won a few votes! 

Drunk dumb and racist

Joe Hilderbrand's report on the ABC was a welcome and open one . While the whole idea is to exaggerate the problem by using that title ,  the mature and sensible Indians (who can see oursleves as we can't ) weren't to be convinced that we were OK .
We are in trouble even if it doesn't come back to the 3 symbols;  The observers said so in so many ways
They wouldn't join us . And it wouldn't matter which foreigners were chosen .
We are a society in self destruct mode and  without a word to keep order on the streets .
Twenty years ago the ABC journo would be " wanting to do something about it " But we are too accommodating and placid now -- now too far "East"
So despite the tragedy in human indignity  we accept that  instead of substance its OK  to fill the void between young adults with alcohol. . Instead of minds engaging,  minds must go bashing themselves needlessly on the concrete .Anyone would think we were ...well stupid 

The West's failure to act like the West builds contempt for us by outsiders. Its not that Islam is strong,  but that adults in the West are so weak and woosy. Reactionaries at the ABC have been in their jobs long enough to know that celebrating the best of the past is not something you do to keep a job there . 

More Fabianism or more Fanaticism?

The kids of today will reject the woosy weakness of the 60's generation because its in their nature to do so. The only hope of reform ( taking what's good forward ) is if the currently powerful admit to their mistaken reactionary  adventures.
Institutional adherents to an established philosophy often forget the creative tension that caused a movement in the first place - this is particularly true of the children of the 60 ' who think good things flow out of being adaptable and waiting for good to prevail . Most new movements are highly reactionary in origin.    Cultured in cotton wool , Fabianism is a child  and will give in to pressure , as it has done throughout its  history; it will give in to pressure because the woosy ( if perfectly democratic) household  is its theme . More than 2 children in your house,  and the adults don't matter. Tradition provides no tension for the ravages of blind self will and optimism of youth . Fabianism is doing what its always done because its weak  - its giving in to fanaticism.
Bertrand Russell, Chesterton and Orwell could see this  because they were closer to why government worked in the West - Fabians just took it for granted that government worked. .For the radical thinkers  the price of freedom  was never the cooercion of power  but the coercion of ideas - eternal vigilance .Men weren't to be trusted and neither were the institutions of power .  The Fabians faith in the public and the public service is unreasonable and unreliable - change is fine as long as its actually for the better. Shaw's support for the Russian revolution was blinkered stupidity cultivated by popular reactionaries parties . The faith of our forefathers was that the greatest evil was actually done in the name of the best intention:  the intention of giving children in a household  their freedom to rule equally was the biggest act of indiscipline ever possible in a household .  Animal farm advocates are still everywhere - why is this?
Since the West has thrown off the idea that freedom is a state of mind ( Thinkhebrew ) all we have is any number of advocates of animal farm .
Labor leader know the children are in charge  but they don't know what to do about it:  but neither do the Libs or even the IPA ( complete free trade is not economic freedom unless we want the culture of all countries to be the same ) If freedom is to mean something its gotta be more that the press releases of the powerful
Theabove 4 groups  all talk in grand terms of the need for cultural change -but can only talk simplicities when it comes to actions . God help us if Labor think they can master such things with their ads and their educational revolution . To understand why the price of freedom is eternal vigilance you have to be a lot more radical and a lot less reactionary than most parties in our country today .

Takes one to know one

Our PM claims continuously that the Opposition are running a scare campaign against their taxes . They will be good for us, we are told. Parenting may not be popular but its certainly practiced by polys - or is it nannys
These are taxes that are " fundamental "--we are told . We are told that the new bureaucracy will NOT soak up much tax in its attempts to create the parallel taxation system that is more complex and much less clear and predictable ( ever tried to nail down soil carbon credits?)than the current one attempts ( the legislation the CT is many thousands of pages long already )
The CT must be an absolutely wonderful and necessary thing. Its promoters hope its big enough and well targeted enough to be effective in changing behaviour.The veidence is it will affect the poor but unlikly to influence the behaviour of the rich . The popularity of its simplicity with wannabes is completely understandable .
Just how much tax needs to be applied to tobacco or alcohol to change behaviour would prove sobering.
Clearly a new generation of wannabes will go back to using legislation rather than taxes to change behavoiur after the fad is finished?
" WE are NOT running a fear campaign!" BUT " You will ALL cook if YOU don't do exactly as WE say this week"
The problem is that any accusation. unless carefully considered, as we learn in the schoolyard, may well reflect more on us, than it does on those on whom it is projected.

Not safe to be in the public service

One day some smart Aussie journo will realize he /she can get their own scoop. Make their own aussie version of Yes Minister - not hard. As Andrew Bolt /Steve price said this morning noone can keep up with the nonsense.
When the children are in charge, sensible sound people in the public service can't cope ; they can't tell the truth ; the whole truth . The public service becomes a cancerous comfort zone for those seeking to shield themselves from accountability. Acres of yes men . So what would you do ? sack em all ? That doesn't work .
I would get a professional people agency to get PS to each jsutify HOW and why they are qualified for the job , be required to be recorded for their expenditures aagianst projects and for govt to develop professional review groups WITHIN the PS ( esp health and environment) based on mentors with trackj record of consistent effective work in the public interest.

Baillieu and ALL The new broom governments need to kick themselves hard - or they TOO will, like Kennett, get the KICK BACK. The point is Baillieu's CAN'T really WORK out WHAT TO DO unless the admit they need good advice .Stupidly, because they KNOW the problem they think they THINK they can find a solution that works. They have had a year - how are they going ?

The answer - get advice from elsewhere eg NET
All some journo/ sound poly has to is interview some FORMER Public servants who still care and have had to give up their careers because they cared to tell the truth.

But are they too busy thinking they too can change the world - on their very own !

Squealin bad habits - how did they get past the keeper ?

Excessive squealing by Stars at the Australian Open reminded me that we need to say more to each other to help us deal with our bad behaviour. If adults don't stand up and say what's wrong , OR if adults( and the audience )themselves aren't very clear about what sin is ,offensive behaviour gets past the keeper. I could use the term "bad behaviour" here, but as i trust you will see, "bad behaviour" doesn't carry enough weight or clarity to be effective any more( part of the confusion ) ; I am suggesting that the older and clearer term SIN provides the clarity required.
Sin spoils and the image here is of a beautiful thing spoilt. The spoiling concept contrasts with the false and all too easy charge of fully corrupt ( some heretical views of original sin suggest men have nothing good inside them )Sin is about personal choice. The problem is not wholly personal but partly personal and therefore care and clarity are require to avoid confusion . The sin need not be there - by choice ( that's the traditional definition of sin-- that it is not so much bad habit or bad behaviour , but more bad choice and bad attitude)
I feel sad for the young people involved because in many ways Sharapova and Azaranka are not alone amongst generation Y in bearing this unexpected shame ( One of the stars said she "didn't even know that what she as doing, was a problem " .
I have met far too many young people for whom their behaviour/ attitude /sin is not clear to them until they are roundly condemned for showing it - as they did here . In a society which calls itself Christian, this lack of clarity is totally out of order ; The idea is Prechristian in reality and history. Our heritage says a peron is NOT GUILTY if they don't KNOW ( haven't been told ) they are doing the wrong thing.
So how do they KNOW. In a really good game like cricket( excuse me, a little prejudice)where you have a tight sense of order , you still need 2 umpires and 2 recorders to keep some order ( still some questions) In real life we
have neither umpires or policemen. But we do have observers.
Awareness of this truth about our need for honest feedback about sin is still around us ( maybe that's why the star says "noone told me"argument? She could, as most of us know, be just saying that - its hard to believe that her mother wouldn't have told her - but did she listen ? ( we've all been there ! Confusion without clear questioning.
The point is there is real heat ( even anger) confusion and no resolution.
The reason we have confusion and no resolution (real heat is normal and OK if its resolved)is because we have made "sin" a "no talk" word . We know its the subject of substance ( cause WE will get it dumped , whatever it is, heavily on us )Even if we don't believe the preacher we should know from our psychologists that to deny it is to not let it resolve itself.
This spoilt things is ( long term ) ---my reason for trying to provide a very specific ontology here !
Is the superficial problem of annoyance just theirs or our problem as well? Does the traditional view of sin help here ? Yes One can sin by being silent . Its not more police we need but more people prepared to speak up .

When children scream, what logic has caused us post moderns, to stop screaming back.

The idea that kept bad behaviour at bay went like this .
People in Authority used to be allowed to get angry when "the wrong thing" kept on being done .On ontology : The rot seemed to start when God himself/ herself was not allowed to get angry at attitude arrogance about one's behaviour ; Authority came from God and then down to men. Say what you like, such perception set an order for authority when God was powerful and seen as a Creator.
The sinner was not condemned by this old approach,( because the component focus was clear) but the sin. Today a small wiff of "sin" seems to make the sinner feel condemned.
T so it should be as we sin every day so ideally ( to deal with it) we might hear about it/ deal with it everyday .But what if you don't hear about ? You might not deal with it and it can become habitual
Thus, instead of being specific and daily, sins now have seemed to have broad labels like intolerance and uncaring ( words that are totally inadequate as real targets for sin )
Without God or the concept of God , there is a real risk that competition for authority and "what exactly is sinful" about uncaring and intolerance etc ,will lead to great controversy and no clear authority on the subject.No westerner would dare write the book of rules for life (power ,money size, popularity ,,noise, standover can take over preventing,in particular, a proper personal discussion of bad personal behaviour )

In pre modern days, complaints and excuses (even the loud ones )for wrong behaviour were listened to, but rulings made about relevance.( might take days in court but that's how seriously we used to take the evaluation and the specifics) Noise was met with more and bigger noise( where necessary) DIRECTED at shutting down and getting SPECIFIC .Call a holt was the idea - let's get this clear !
Even the excuse of escalation was ignored by firm action on the part of leadership to get down to the finite facts . As we know deep down , giving in to bad behaviour and escalation by noise doesn't work.
None of us "get on with things" and "move on" until we are clear about the specifics about sin . Generalized guilt brings down the sinner ( very poor personal and cultural outcome )and justifies careless treatment of sin -- example of war where people are the targets rather tha the real problem .Things that shouldn't - get past the keeper .
We long for leadership to make a noise when it is fair and right to do so."Sorry STOP lets check that and get to the bottom of that ". Child sinners are not and should not be condemned by the sin - provided it is dealt with and accepted as inconsiderate and wrong.

Sinners should not be condemned by a sin , but they are clearly feeling condemned by the post modern science of morality silence ( we don't want to tell people what they don't want to hear ) . Teenagers/young adults who wake up , as in a silence daze , to realise their behaviour is really offensive to everyone ( not just their parents ) are very prone to giving up on life. This sad reality is my reason for posting this here .
I hope one of the noisy players does the courageuos thing and stops making a noise - then all the children and parents will be reminded that condemnation is avoidable by clearly identifying both the sin and the choices.
How much we all need each others honesty to see and celebrate that we are constrained and potentially condemned by our settled choices.
How much we all need each others honesty to avoid being condemned by our bad choices to making better ones . I truly hope a choice for the better is made by someone this weekend.
Better to be even more noisy if it stops the bad behaviour noise. Questions welcomed posted 8pm 27th January 2012. Modified 30th January